Abuse, sexual assaults, and sexism – a wave is sweeping through the gaming industry. More and more cases are coming to light, painting a grim picture of the industry. “Juicy Gnu,” one of the largest German gaming YouTubers, explained to MeinMMO editor Leya Jankowski how these assaults occur in gaming.
June 2020: The Destiny 2 streamer “SayNoToRage” was banned by Twitch and leaves behind his 168,463 followers. The reason is allegations of sexual harassment. He is accused of harassing and touching young women at events. Bungie, the developer studio behind Destiny 2, distances itself from the streamer and ended the collaboration.
This incident triggered a wave that is now crashing hard over the gaming industry. For weeks, more and more alleged victims have been speaking out on social media, sharing experiences of abuse in the industry. An excerpt:
- the popular WoW guild Method disbanded over an allegation of rape
- the pro-scene of the family-friendly fighting game Super Smash Bros. came under criticism. A young man reported how he was manipulated into sexual acts by an adult player and commentator when he was 14
- an insider report reveals a dark side of Ubisoft, one of the largest gaming publishers in the world. Employees report systematic sexism and abuse of power within the company. Serge Hascoët, one of the big names behind Ubisoft, had to leave.
Jasmin is one of the YouTubers and streamers who have now spoken out about the injustices in the industry. The young woman is known to her fans as “Juicy Gnu.” On her YouTube channel, Jasmin has 670,000 subscribers and on her Twitch she has over 132,000 followers. This makes her one of the largest personalities in gaming in Germany. In an interview with SPIEGEL, Jasmin shared how she was harassed at the beginning of her career in a gaming editorial office, which even led to the loss of that job.
When I read the interview, I had more questions on the topic. I asked Jasmin for a one-on-one conversation for MeinMMO.
MeinMMO: In our preliminary talk, we discussed that you wanted to start your career in the industry at a gaming editorial office and were harassed by a superior at that time. However, your complaints about it were not taken seriously.
I immediately wondered what that triggered in you? What does that do to a person?
Jasmin: Of course, it really upset me. I felt helpless in that situation. I repeatedly said that I didn’t want that. He would call me into his office again and again and wanted to test some Kung-Fu techniques on me. I made it very clear again and again that I did not want that. When I confided in the second boss and talked about the injustices, he seemed understanding at that time. He said he thought it was totally crazy and could understand that it upset me. I felt safe and understood and believed he would help me. I then drafted an email [to the boss], with the second boss in CC, in which I directly addressed the problems again. That was agreed with the second boss.
However, there was no response to that. The two had talked together without me. I think what often happens is that everything was somehow downplayed. It was said that I had completely misunderstood everything and that the harassment was not true at all. In the end, he preferred to believe his best buddy rather than some hysterical woman.
“One feels paralyzed”
MeinMMO: I believe you were a bit younger then, when one might be uncertain about how to deal with something like that?
Jasmin: I was 20 to 21 at the time and now I would certainly act differently. But I have also spoken to many other female colleagues about it. In such moments, one often convinces oneself that it cannot really be true. I have heard things from other colleagues that are so outrageous, where I also thought that they should have intervened.
But then one feels paralyzed and thinks that one is overreacting and that they probably did not mean it seriously. Exactly those are the moments in which one must critically examine oneself. One must consider whether to confide in someone and not sweep everything under the rug.
“I believe many women have come to terms with it”
MeinMMO: This is very interesting, what you are saying. We are now talking about the topic because many cases were reported on Twitter. Many women and also some young men have voiced their experiences here. I’ve often read in the comments that some wonder why someone only comes forward many years after the alleged abuse incident. Does that come from there?
Jasmin: I only started to tell these stories because I was asked. At some point, I, as a woman, resigned and thought that this was just part of it. I believe many women have come to terms with it. That’s why I find this movement very interesting and good, as it allows for discussions.
Of course, one must also be careful about which stories are true and which are not. Sometimes I’ve had the feeling that some have dug deep into the box to somehow join the conversation and make themselves interesting. But I think a lot of women are now speaking up who are now brave enough to say something. Ultimately, one thinks, as I do, that nothing will change anyway. One considers: “If I say something, I will have to leave because I won’t be believed. “
That is this helplessness, and one thinks: “It doesn’t help anyway.”
MeinMMO: I would like to go back to the interview with SPIEGEL. You mentioned there the so-called buddy culture. How do you think this buddy culture manifests itself and why is it apparently so strong in the gaming industry?
Jasmin: I can only speak from the companies I have worked for. Often, these were companies where the founders were already good friends before the establishment. Or there is the boss and the second boss who already get along well. It appears that situations arise in which men stick together and women are accused of exaggerating.
Of course, there are also women who make claims to harm men. That should not be overlooked. I think the genders then simply stick together.
Especially when one has founded a company together and has a great business partner with whom things are going well, one certainly does not want to admonish or dismiss that person just because they cannot control themselves. Perhaps a word of advice is given that the colleague should behave, but in my experience, that has never helped in the long run.
In the end, it was also the case for me that I wanted to be assertive and achieve something, and in the end, I was the one who got dismissed.
“Back then, I said nothing because I was afraid”
MeinMMO: My heart bleeds a little when I hear that. Fortunately, you were not deterred by this experience and have forged your own path. You found your home on Twitch and YouTube.
You hinted that this was not the only case when someone acted disrespectfully or lewdly toward you. How have you dealt with this throughout your career?
Jasmin: Actually, it was problematic when I did not have that much reach yet. More creators approached me with immoral offers. When I was smaller, they had no concerns that it could backfire on them because no one would have believed me.
The change came when I had more reach. Then only stupid offers from the internet came in, but not from the creators anymore. Quite the opposite, I had the impression that people respected me much more and were more in awe of the saying: “Oh god, she has made it big now, hopefully, she won’t say anything. “
Back then, I said nothing because I was afraid. I was sometimes threatened by creators with a larger reach to watch out. Today, I would speak up faster.
Rightly, people wonder why I am only talking about this now. It often has to do with being afraid and not wanting to bear the consequences of others sending hate messages. People often assume that I only want attention and fame, and then say that I should name names. Yes, why don’t you name the names? Because one is afraid of the consequences.
“Many women do this voluntarily, too”
MeinMMO: I didn’t even know there was such a culture of threatening younger and smaller streamers. I am hearing this for the first time in this form.
Jasmin: I always say everyone can do what they want. One must also say that these content creators often hear a “yes.” Many women do this voluntarily. The content creators give the smaller streamers a push, and in turn, the women provide their performance, however that may look. Therefore, I must always say that it seems to work well. Otherwise, as a woman with a small reach, you probably wouldn’t get so many offers.
If these women want to do this, that’s perfectly fine. But I think one should not project this onto every woman and then say that one should be punished if she doesn’t accept these offers.
MeinMMO: So you mean that someone must be able to distinguish whether a woman is doing this as a voluntary performance or she does not want to?
Jasmin: Yes, I think it is also silly to demonize all men and say: “How can they?” It is certainly not acceptable for someone to threaten me, but it seems to have often worked. Otherwise, they wouldn’t keep trying so obviously, and now everyone is talking about it because some maybe said “no,” but comparatively, enough have said “yes.”
“But don’t bring your ugly friend”
MeinMMO: I would like to touch upon a point regarding industry events. What I have noticed in all these reports on social media is that many accounts started with: “I was at the event, and something happened.”
Now I know that you are on the road at many events for your job, much like I am. I have been to many press events where YouTubers and streamers were also present. I noticed that these events are often just big parties with many young people where a lot of alcohol is consumed. Do you believe that the culture of these industry events is problematic?
Jasmin: Yes, especially when I was smaller. More guys would approach me bragging about their reach and suggesting that we could record something together. The girls might think that this is quite cool to boost their own reach. Then they might also feel they cannot say “no” because they have put themselves in a dependency. I often observed this at events. When these women get a push, they feel somewhat indebted to the man.
I still remember an event when I was very small. A creator came up to me and stood at the bar with me, talking about how great he is. He then wanted my number so we could meet up later and said: “But don’t bring your ugly friend with you.” I just thought: “You jerk.”
“The younger and more inexperienced, the greater the dependency can become”
MeinMMO: We have already discussed that you were intimidated more quickly when you were younger. Do you think it is a problem that so many start out so young? Most are teenagers or just in their early 20s when they start with YouTube or Twitch, and then some suddenly appear at these large events.
Jasmin: I think so, yes. That reminds me of something fitting. About four years ago, when I was still very small, I was at an event of a large company. There was a business lounge, and an influential employee of the company said: “Hey, can the pretty girl come over to us in the business lounge?” He then tried to chat me up, knowing I was young and inexperienced, and she is doing YouTube; certainly, a dependency can be established.
But I had no interest in him at all, and he kept going on about how much money he was making and was acting all big. I knew immediately that I needed to get away quickly. But of course, if someone bites, it’s the jackpot for them, and they just try. The younger and more inexperienced, the bigger the dependency can become – but also here, again emphasizing that it often seems to work.
In the entire debate, men are often portrayed as the bad guys, and of course, it is a terrible situation for women to be abused and harassed. But I know from enough conversations that it often works.
Update 29.09.2020: Jasmin released a statement on her YouTube channel after the interview, putting the topic in even more context. The statement addresses that women are not “to blame” if they are harassed. You can also learn more about the partially toxic and abusive internet comment culture towards women in gaming. Since the video thematically fits well with the interview, we decided to embed it afterwards.
Jasmin’s statement on the harassment of women in gaming:
“It is really valuable to be able to say as a woman that you also have reach”
MeinMMO: Do you think that these young women have a problem in that they are sometimes still too naive due to their inexperience to understand what consequences such actions can have?
Jasmin: I do think that they are sometimes too naive to realize that some men are not just being nice to them. They do not yet understand what these men really want. I used to be like that, thinking: “Wow, are they all so nice to me.” and my mother would only say to me: “Wow, you’re dumb.”
I have surely kept some contacts longer than necessary because I had no ulterior motives. I was too dumb and naive to understand that all this could have put me in very uncomfortable situations. Now that I am older and have a reach, I have never been hit on poorly at events again. But now people know me, and they know it could quickly become very embarrassing for them if they approach me inappropriately.
It is really valuable when you can say as a woman that you also have reach and something to say. Maybe that’s why there is also such a desire for this reach among young women that they sometimes do things they might regret later.
It is better to issue a warning to young people than simply to condemn all men.
MeinMMO: Here, I am a bit conflicted, to be honest. One has a certain personal responsibility, and one can say that one was foolish and inexperienced. But if a young girl, maybe at the age of 18, voluntarily participated and even provided some sexual favors, then suddenly after 5 – 10 years says she was just manipulated back then, and now the other person is to blame. How do you see it?
Jasmin: I often think that too. I recently saw a great movie, Bombshell (link leads to IMDb) on Netflix. In principle, it was just like that. A presenter only got her position because she did something 15 years ago and did not dare to speak about it. But ultimately in the movie, she dealt with it by eventually opening up. However, she also said that she is partially responsible and feels ashamed today because she was foolish and naive.
I believe it’s important to admit to oneself that perhaps one acted foolishly in the past and would not do so again today. It’s better to warn young people than simply to condemn all men.
MeinMMO: We have talked a lot about how such injustices can occur and how young women or young men are confronted with abuse. What needs to change in the industry to combat this?
Jasmin: This is really a difficult question because it essentially relates to everything. No matter where I was, there were always problems with sexual harassment. Whether it was with teachers at school, in my jobs, up to YouTube or even on the street. I believe every woman knows that one has these points of contact over and over again.
I currently don’t have any solutions, I can only mention a great example. Generally, regarding insults or harassment on the internet, moderators on Twitch are setting up a network on Discord with around 70 people. If I am sexually harassed or insulted in my chat and that person is banned, they are also automatically banned from the other 70 streamers, so they cannot reach us again.
What I always find important is having a trustworthy person. For example, I had a wonderful teacher in school with whom I felt safe, which I later missed in my career. The teacher involved was, of course, very good friends with the principal, which is why this teacher greatly helped me because she herself had experienced harassment from him.
It would be great to have a neutral contact person in every company, also for men, who advocate for preventing such occurrences.
“You must not become dependent on the platforms or people”
MeinMMO: Finally, I have one more question. We know that we are not living in a perfect world and that an ideal state is still a long way off. What would you advise a young person who wants to kickstart their career as a content creator, whether male, female, or non-binary, to protect themselves from abuse?
Jasmin: Finish your education.
It is very important that you complete your schooling or degree. Social media can quickly fade away. It is vital that you are not at a point where you feel you have to have sacrificed your education for it and now must do everything for your gaming career. This thought goes away if it doesn’t work out with YouTube or Twitch, and you can return to everyday life. You must not become dependent on the platforms or people. I have a friend who dropped out of school back then and eventually had to take on campaigns he didn’t want to. He just needed the money and was scared because he didn’t have a school diploma.
Importantly for you as men to know: I, as a woman, can send my community a heart when little girls or boys write to me. If I were a boy or a man, it would come across as strange. This means you need to be careful with how you respond to members of the community. That is something my manager taught me. If you are a man, you should not send a heart or write cutely to a 13-year-old fan because it can be interpreted differently as a man. As a woman, I have an advantage.
But most importantly, you should remain true to yourself. Viewers and clicks are not everything. Do not be afraid to go public if someone threatens you and do not accept everything. Make it public if someone makes you an immoral offer and do not listen to those who tell you not to make a fuss. Most people will listen to you and believe you if you have proof.
Never let yourself be intimidated.
